CPFGreen

Vert I Go · #1 09-16-2008, 02:17 AM

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2127/

idleprocess · #2 09-16-2008, 09:20 PM

But haven't you heard the campaign ads? DRILL NOW!

Darell · #3 09-16-2008, 09:58 PM

While we're trying to avoid setting too many limits, we realized right off that we'll have to stay clear of the politics if we hope to keep discussion civil.

I know it is hard, and in fact, I would love nothing more to discuss the politics of energy usage in this country. But it can't happen the way many of us would like it to. And we KNOW it can't happen. So we just have to keep away, I'm afraid.

Please?

idleprocess · #4 09-16-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darell

While we're trying to avoid setting too many limits, we realized right off that we'll have to stay clear of the politics if we hope to keep discussion civil.

No problem. I'll keep further posts in this thread - if any - to the practicality of offshore drilling as a solution to the United States' petroleum-supply problems.

Darell · #5 09-16-2008, 10:38 PM

I just read in the paper (and have not yet researched it) that when we drill domestically, we do NOT just keep that oil here and use it, as is so often assumed and implied. These are multinational companies doing the drilling, and the oil is sold to the highest bidder. It is then sold BACK to us if we were not the original high bidder... if we choose to buy it. I'd always assumed that anything drilled in the US would simply stay in the US. Need to read up a bit more on the details.

All the renewable power we could make - solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, etc... that's all 100% domestic. It all stays here. Nobody has to fight for it. Nobody has to protect it.

Chengiz · #6 09-16-2008, 10:53 PM

Since I am not an oil man and looking at this thing as neutral as possible, if I dug the hole today, how long before the derrick/platform can be set up and pumping oil.

How long would it take an auto manufacturer convert/retool a plant just to produce EV's that could operate a within a medium city (so it can go to the job and make it back to its home plug)?

What EV's are out there that can be bought or transported for sale nation wide? If their is a reliable model out there then the advertising needs to be pushed and the demand rate publicised. This may be the best of the three.

If I am an auto manufacturer sitting on my thumbs watching my company die, This may be the incentive to retool.

Too simplistic I know, but I truly believe it is we (with money in our pockets) that will push forward the movement. Trying to be apolitical, in all my years I have yet to see a single politician (American) do anything for the environment. They talk a good line, but ultimately the concern with the environment ends with the swearing in ceremony. Now that you have won the race, what are you going to do MR/MS. Congressman/Senator/President, go to Disney Land.

idleprocess · #7 09-16-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chengiz

How long would it take an auto manufacturer convert/retool a plant just to produce EV's that could operate a within a medium city (so it can go to the job and make it back to its home plug)?

The engine, transmission, and emissions-control departments will be out of work in short order. Body, interior, suspension / some powertrain components, brake shop, some secondary engine-compartment systems, and your ECU group will still have jobs. New will be batteries, battery management system, motors (Detroit will need some re-education on EV traction motors, but they already know how to make them), and motor control electronics.

A crash program could probably churn out vehicles within two years. Batteries and a lot of the electronics will be outsourced ... but electronics are already by and large outsourced. There will be some inevitable design issues and headaches that come up, but it's been done before at much less cost than the fuel cell prototypes. First generation might not be overly profitable, but succeeding generations could be.

Quote:

If I am an auto manufacturer sitting on my thumbs watching my company die, This may be the incentive to retool.

From what I've read, this is how GM has been approaching the Volt. It's a bet-the-farm moon shot.

Vert I Go · #8 09-17-2008, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vert I Go

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2127/

I think the main idea is that you need to have NO dependence on oil at all.

husky20 · #9 09-17-2008, 05:26 AM

deleted deleted

Greta · #10 09-17-2008, 07:48 AM

husky20... thank you for deleting your post...

It was not appropriate for this discussion or even for this forum as a whole. I think we are all interested in hearing your views based on facts... but not on bigotry

Darell · #11 09-17-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chengiz

How long would it take an auto manufacturer convert/retool a plant just to produce EV's that could operate a within a medium city (so it can go to the job and make it back to its home plug)?

Well, when they *had* to do it, we had EVs on the road in two or three years. Compare that to the FCV movement where since the 1960's they have said that they WANT to do it.... and still haven't quite gotten in the game. Those quick-to-market EVs were basically starting from scratch too! And now all the makers have experience and real-world data from those first cars. Doing it again just isn't rocket science. There are still many compelling reasons for them to now want to procude EVs though, and Idle hit on some of them. These car companies still own the businesses that build the ICEs. Do you just throw them away? Make them obsolete?

Quote:

What EV's are out there that can be bought or transported for sale nation wide? If their is a reliable model out there then the advertising needs to be pushed and the demand rate publicised. This may be the best of the three.

For one thing, nobody is making enough of them, and for another, only Zenn really makes what I would call a "car" that is reliable and available (while still being low-speed). The next two years are finally going to change all that. It has been a long, hard road.

Quote:

If I am an auto manufacturer sitting on my thumbs watching my company die, This may be the incentive to retool.

Yes, welcome to GM.

Quote:

Trying to be apolitical, in all my years I have yet to see a single politician (American) do anything for the environment. They talk a good line, but ultimately the concern with the environment ends with the swearing in ceremony. Now that you have won the race, what are you going to do MR/MS. Congressman/Senator/President, go to Disney Land.

Agreed. Hand-in-hand with that is a real energy policy. Nixon was the first to try... and only the first in a long line to fail.

husky20 · #12 09-17-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greta

husky20... thank you for deleting your post...

It was not appropriate for this discussion or even for this forum as a whole. I think we are all interested in hearing your views based on facts... but not on bigotry

feel better now

Greta · #13 09-17-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husky20

feel better now

Yes... much! Thank you for asking...

OH!

... almost forgot... buh-bye!... from this CPF forum also...

Darell · #14 09-17-2008, 07:31 PM

Crap. I was hoping it would take longer than that. MUCH longer.

Greta · #15 09-17-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darell

Crap. I was hoping it would take longer than that. MUCH longer.

Me too... but some children just can't behave themselves no matter where they go and even if you try to give them a second... and even third chance.

Chengiz · #16 09-17-2008, 09:58 PM

Some folks do not have a sense of time or place. The truly astute would have recognized the name Chengiz as having an origin in Southwest Asia. It is not as bad as going into PETA headquarters with a cheese burger but just as unwise.

Speaking of which I am not fond of those who are cruel to animals....in case anybody was curious.